Discussion with BSO Split from how are you currently feeling

[icannotdomyjob]

Yes, we don't share information [anymore]. That doesn't mean that [warnings and ban reasons] aren't given, particularly early on before the e-mail started to be used more for that.

[/url]

Spoiler

I am going to assume this is what you meant, since your pronouns have no nouns to identify what they mean. Correct me if I am wrong, I can correct myself.

So we have to thank you for having Dina choose you as a Mod, to make the suggestions. Now we have a moderation email account still not 100% sanctified by comcept, since their domain is comcept.co.jp, not comcept.jp, proper moderator etiquette, and now summaries of ban reasons. Awesome. How does that help stop the unbiased moderation since the "current policy" that is secret as the dark side of the moon cannot stop faltering?



I am sorry, that last statement:

That doesn't mean that [warnings and ban reasons] aren't given, particularly early on before the e-mail started to be used more for that.

[/url] was not true previously before you coming aboard. I commend you for going out of your way to make those changes come true, addressing Quattro here, and now us that have gripes with the current moderation bias.



HOWEVER, it shouldn't be your job to diffuse all the ills comcept and their PR staff has, and worse, for free. NO ONE, deserves to have their money refused of refunds, and on the last day to do so. I mean no one.



And to brush it off as if it is only complaints that are OFF TOPIC, OR SLANDER. Is a blatant lie to the consumer.



You, above all the Mods enlisted, should know very well what they did is outright theft. You should not have to defend comcept, for people pointing the obvious bias the other moderators have, the current CM, and comcept



Seriously. Stop for a moment, go to a mirror, and ask yourself this question, so that you can see your face:





Are you willing defend and diffuse the voices of people that paid for a service from a company that outright denied them of their voice and desire for refunds?





Take a moment to let that sink. Are you willing to be part of the hand that helped a company deny and lie about rendering services unmet?





Once you have an answer, please reply. The people are watching.







Also, I know very well they had to race to purchase the domain comcept.jp for just the moderation, since comcept's hand is tied by DDM. The whois screams of it:

Spoiler

Domain Information:

[Domain Name]                   COMCEPT.JP



[Registrant]                    comcept CO.,LTD.



[Name Server]                   ns1.dns.ne.jp

[Name Server]                   ns2.dns.ne.jp

[Signing Key]                   



[Created on]                    2010/12/17

[Expires on]                    2014/12/31

[Status]                        Active

[Last Updated]                  2014/01/01 01:05:12 (JST)



Contact Information:

[Name]                 comcept Inc.

[Email]                 comceptadm@gmail.com\[/EMAIL\]

[Web Page]                       

[Postal code]       556-0017

[Postal Address] Naniwa-ku, Osaka-shi

                            Minatomachi 2-1-7

                            Renaissa Namba Bldg

[Phone]                03-5781-0582

[Fax]                           

Domain Information:

a. [Domain Name]                COMCEPT.CO.JP

g. [Organization]               comcept CO.,LTD.

l. [Organization Type]          COMPANY

m. [Administrative Contact]     KI12974JP

n. [Technical Contact]          KI12974JP

p. [Name Server]                ns1.dns.ne.jp

p. [Name Server]                ns2.dns.ne.jp

s. [Signing Key]               

[State]                         Connected (2014/12/31)

[Registered Date]               2010/12/16

[Connected Date]                2010/12/16

[Last Update]                   2014/01/01 01:37:45 (JST)

http://whois.jprs.jp/en/

We will see you in the next response.



PS

It's sad that Dina still has not answered any critical questions in her AMA, after all the post removals.

[MechaGS]

I'll be honest and say that we had planned on closing this topic but have opted to keep it open for now. Some of the wording and pressure in here is a little heavy for our liking.



We'll be keeping an eye on this one. Please aim to keep this topic civil for all concerned.

[BSO]

Yes, we don't share information [anymore]. That doesn't mean that [warnings and ban reasons] aren't given, particularly early on before the e-mail started to be used more for that.

[/url]

Spoiler

I am going to assume this is what you meant, since your pronouns have no nouns to identify what they mean. Correct me if I am wrong, I can correct myself.

So we have to thank you for having Dina choose you as a Mod, to make the suggestions. Now we have a moderation email account still not 100% sanctified by comcept, since their domain is comcept.co.jp, not comcept.jp, proper moderator etiquette, and now summaries of ban reasons. Awesome. How does that help stop the unbiased moderation since the "current policy" that is secret as the dark side of the moon cannot stop faltering?



I am sorry, that last statement:

That doesn't mean that [warnings and ban reasons] aren't given, particularly early on before the e-mail started to be used more for that.

[/url] was not true previously before you coming aboard. I commend you for going out of your way to make those changes come true, addressing Quattro here, and now us that have gripes with the current moderation bias.



HOWEVER, it shouldn't be your job to diffuse all the ills comcept and their PR staff has, and worse, for free. NO ONE, deserves to have their money refused of refunds, and on the last day to do so. I mean no one.



And to brush it off as if it is only complaints that are OFF TOPIC, OR SLANDER. Is a blatant lie to the consumer.



You, above all the Mods enlisted, should know very well what they did is outright theft. You should not have to defend comcept, for people pointing the obvious bias the other moderators have, the current CM, and comcept



Seriously. Stop for a moment, go to a mirror, and ask yourself this question, so that you can see your face:





Are you willing defend and diffuse the voices of people that paid for a service from a company that outright denied them of their voice and desire for refunds?





Take a moment to let that sink. Are you willing to be part of the hand that helped a company deny and lie about rendering services unmet?





Once you have an answer, please reply. The people are watching.







Also, I know very well they had to race to purchase the domain comcept.jp for just the moderation, since comcept's hand is tied by DDM. The whois screams of it:

Spoiler

Domain Information:

[Domain Name]                   COMCEPT.JP



[Registrant]                    comcept CO.,LTD.



[Name Server]                   ns1.dns.ne.jp

[Name Server]                   ns2.dns.ne.jp

[Signing Key]                   



[Created on]                    2010/12/17

[Expires on]                    2014/12/31

[Status]                        Active

[Last Updated]                  2014/01/01 01:05:12 (JST)



Contact Information:

[Name]                 comcept Inc.

[Email]                 comceptadm@gmail.com\[/EMAIL\]

[Web Page]                       

[Postal code]       556-0017

[Postal Address] Naniwa-ku, Osaka-shi

                            Minatomachi 2-1-7

                            Renaissa Namba Bldg

[Phone]                03-5781-0582

[Fax]                           

Domain Information:

a. [Domain Name]                COMCEPT.CO.JP

g. [Organization]               comcept CO.,LTD.

l. [Organization Type]          COMPANY

m. [Administrative Contact]     KI12974JP

n. [Technical Contact]          KI12974JP

p. [Name Server]                ns1.dns.ne.jp

p. [Name Server]                ns2.dns.ne.jp

s. [Signing Key]               

[State]                         Connected (2014/12/31)

[Registered Date]               2010/12/16

[Connected Date]                2010/12/16

[Last Update]                   2014/01/01 01:37:45 (JST)

http://whois.jprs.jp/en/

We will see you in the next response.



PS

It's sad that Dina still has not answered any critical questions in her AMA, after all the post removals.

Not sure why you assume it's not sanctified, particularly since it was given full approval to be changed to @comcept, the same one being used for their other e-mail for the game.



Proper policy inevitably brings proper moderation, that doesn't mean that adjustment is instantaneous though. Of course it won't help people that are inclined to see problem with everything that is done however. There are some people who will not be satisfied no matter what changes are made or what is done, I've known this for years. I'd like to hope there are still a number of people here that will be able to see that improvement is being made and that it's worth accepting that. It would be appreciated if what little optimism I have for that wouldn't be killed by everyone. If it is though, oh well.



My job is moderation, and of course I'm going to discuss that. Anything unrelated to moderation isn't officially my business though, and anything that I might say about it should be taken as the opinion of someone who is only a normal backer.



Services have been met, as people were told they'd have access, not that they'd keep it no matter what. Paying someone doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. I know this fact all too well, and have for a long time.



My goal is the same thing it was when I backed the project, to get a great game. Part of that is getting our input, but unfortunately the forums hit a snag and the situation got progressively worse. My contribution to helping was to try and provide my input as to the best way to set up their moderation policies and their rules. When I was given the chance to help more directly, I took it up when I also saw that they were willing to make those changes that were being suggested. Unlike some people, I'm not under the impression that the only thing to do now is to try and damage the project as much as possible.

[DunnoBro]

Is it just me or did BSO avoid addressing any of the points made by Truemighty.



Backer forum mods seem to have a knack for that.

[NotSpiderBread]

Is it just me or did BSO avoid addressing any of the points made by Truemighty.



Backer forum mods seem to have a knack for that.

Is it just me or are people completely disregarding the points he did make and labeling it as him "avoiding"  them altogether?



People are acting like he's actively contributing to some conspiracy to quiet all of the "dissenters" rather than trying to get their voices heard.



Refunds don't concern him, he's not an employee of DDM.



He's not an employee of Comcept, he can't get Dina fired anymore than she can get Inafune fired.



He's also an unpaid forum mod that participates and mods in his free time. He even said he took the position to try and promote some change. I've seen the change (I'm looking at you emails about the posts that lead to people's bans). Had it not been for him, we probably wouldn't have gotten those.



He's also responded to basically all of the emails I've sent to the modgmail personally. And when I say emails, I mean fucking novels. I have half of an encyclopedia set in my sent folder to the mod-gmail.



He can't control the way Pon or Damo moderates, mostly because he's not them, unless he has a giant case of multiple personality disorder and blacks out when he decides to post as them with no recollection of doing so. I doubt that's the case.



What he can do is see the errors of the other members moderation habits and address them privately to try and change how they approach people publicly, which he said he's doing.. Why on earth would he put other mods on blast on the forums for being fuck ups or not defend the company of the forum he mods for?  I'm sure that wouldn't bode well for his "employment".



He can't change the past, nor take back the bans that have already happened, nor can he make every. single. goddamn. change. everyone. fucking. demands. immediately.



Yea it fucking sucks that DDM told us to fuck off with refunds, yea it sucks we were banned for stupid shit, yes it sucks that Dina surrounded herself more-or-less with "yes men", but the kicker to all of this is that it wasn't BSO's fault nor doing and just because he's associated with them doesn't make him apart of the problem. Jesus christ.



inb4 I'm called a BSO whiteknight. You guys are starting to get a bit ridiculous.



/end rant

[DunnoBro]

I'm just pointing out that to me, it looked like he replied to the post but the text within doesn't actually connect to it beyond the first sentence. I never denied the good BSO's done.

[BSO]

Is it just me or did BSO avoid addressing any of the points made by Truemighty.



Backer forum mods seem to have a knack for that.

Is it just me or are people completely disregarding the points he did make and labeling it as him "avoiding"  them altogether?



People are acting like he's actively contributing to some conspiracy to quiet all of the "dissenters" rather than trying to get their voices heard.



Refunds don't concern him, he's not an employee of DDM.



He's not an employee of Comcept, he can't get Dina fired anymore than she can get Inafune fired.



He's also an unpaid forum mod that participates and mods in his free time. He even said he took the position to try and promote some change. I've seen the change (I'm looking at you emails about the posts that lead to people's bans). Had it not been for him, we probably wouldn't have gotten those.



He's also responded to basically all of the emails I've sent to the modgmail personally. And when I say emails, I mean fucking novels. I have half of an encyclopedia set in my sent folder to the mod-gmail.



He can't control the way Pon or Damo moderates, mostly because he's not them, unless he has a giant case of multiple personality disorder and blacks out when he decides to post as them with no recollection of doing so. I doubt that's the case.



What he can do is see the errors of the other members moderation habits and address them privately to try and change how they approach people publicly, which he said he's doing.. Why on earth would he put other mods on blast on the forums for being fuck ups or not defend the company of the forum he mods for?  I'm sure that wouldn't bode well for his "employment".



He can't change the past, nor take back the bans that have already happened, nor can he make every. single. goddamn. change. everyone. fucking. demands. immediately.



Yea it fucking sucks that DDM told us to fuck off with refunds, yea it sucks we were banned for stupid shit, yes it sucks that Dina surrounded herself more-or-less with "yes men", but the kicker to all of this is that it wasn't BSO's fault nor doing and just because he's associated with them doesn't make him apart of the problem. Jesus christ.



inb4 I'm called a BSO whiteknight. You guys are starting to get a bit ridiculous.



/end rant

I can say something on the refunds if people would like, keeping in mind though that again this is only my personal view, and not even remotely official in any way.



I posted on this before, and I don't fully agree with every reason that people have had with wanting to pull out. The situation had a rough start and is still working on getting itself straightened out, but I still feel like wanting to abandon ship the second she got the job was premature. Situations are almost never beyond repair, and almost never unable to be improved. Kickstarter is a strange element that's between purchasing a product and putting in an investment, and I can understand why given what was going on, they might not have been so inclined to hand out refunds to everyone that was asking. That being said, I think it's unfortunate that people weren't able to get what they wanted, particularly the ones that had more serious reasons (needing money for bills). I'd like it if people could keep the hope that the end result will still be what they want, but I can't fault them for being cautious about that. This is the situation we're in though, and the best that I can do for the people that are still here is to fix what I can. I want this to work, and I want people to feel like it's working. I was depressed enough when Legends and Universe got canned, I don't want to see this go south too. Call me delusional if you'd like, it seems like anyone that's still trying to be a Mega Man fan and hope we'll get something from Capcom at this point probably is at least a little bit.



The biggest challenge with moderation right now, aside from a lack of tools, is experience. Aside from Heat Man, I have the most experience with doing moderation work. Heat Man however is generally pretty busy, and when he's not it's during times when the forums aren't really active. Heat Man is also used to owning his own site too, so that's a bit of a change for him I'm sure as he doesn't get to run things however he'd like. Joseph and alraz are good guys, but alraz is pretty busy and more technically inclined, and this is new for Joseph. Pontata, as much as I know some people haven't liked everything that she's done, is a nice person. The issue there is frustration with the situation that makes it hard to always keep calm. It's an issue of needing to always think twice about what you're saying, because you never know how it might come off to people. A number of people seem to not like Damo because of his early posts defending Dina. I have to say though when it comes to moderation, he's agreed with me on most everything that I've suggested. While you may not agree with his personal opinions, he's shown good judgement on moderation. Also as I said before, Dina's doing less with moderation lately, and leaving it more and more to us. As far as I understand, most of the time there is being spent on putting things together for the development staff to look over, and translating.



This is still a new forum, still a new system, and still people new to the job. Most forums when they're first starting off have a very low number of users, most of them people that the owner would already know. This gives time to build the rules and policy as it's needed, and lets the forum grow over time. The issue here is that because it suddenly had a few thousand people dumped on it at once, it wasn't ready. I also doubt that comcept has much experience making forums, given that we're using one outsourced and made with Drupal. As time goes on, the people working here will learn from the things that happen, adjust to that, and slowly build up a better system. If the people on the team don't have the potential for that growth they won't last particularly long, I know this one from experience watching a lot of people that weren't able to cope, drop out themselves. Also, as Spider said, I can talk to them when something happens that may not have been a good choice. I don't have the authority to "make" anyone do anything, but I have yet to have anyone be unwilling to very seriously consider my opinion there, and that applies to everyone.



If there's anything that I want to try and get across from all of my posting here, it's that things aren't dead, it just has a slight limp. Please do not shoot the horse just yet. It's a matter of how much people want to be involved at this point, and in what way. Don't give up on that thread asking for suggestions, don't think that there's nothing to talk about in the thread's discussing weapons or bosses, don't assume that someone's out to get you because of what happened before. If all you want to do is hang back and just vote on things when they come out, that's fine, but if you want to talk about the game on the forums, please do so. Don't keep yourselves separated from the discussion like the Kickstarter comments.

[epicnights]

The comment about the kickstarter comments really resounds with me. As of recent, I've started seeing more of the "hug box" environment that the comments are always called out on, especially from users like Morningstar, Holo, and Steven. It's embarrassing to see them outright attacking people who mention any of the distress going on.

[Quattro Bajeena]

The comment about the kickstarter comments really resounds with me. As of recent, I've started seeing more of the "hug box" environment that the comments are always called out on, especially from users like Morningstar, Holo, and Steven. It's embarrassing to see them outright attacking people who mention any of the distress going on.

that's because knights despite how you act the few times we;ve talked I've noticed you're a sensible human being, and I'm not the only one, your right to feel disgusted by it all, people turning a blind eye to problems is something that should never be done, what is that old poem, "they came for the X and I didn't speak up because I wasn't X" something like that.



we have a problem that comcept won't address and a lot of people aren't willing to acknowledge, and as more and more articles concerning MN9 pop up I'm seeing more and more users stepping up to not only inform people (whether they like it or not) about all that has really happened, pretending the problem is a non-issue and thinking it'll go away only makes things worse, and with outdated youtube videos (hopefully SOMEONE will make an updated video about all this) you still have people getting wrong or outdated info, and then you have people like what's his face, retsuprae or whatever making click bait videos lambasting anyone who isn't ok with it and labeling them as "manchildren" or "entitled gamers".



the problem won't go away and it's something the KS hugbox needs to realize

[Psi-Zero]

Is it just me or are people completely disregarding the points he did make and labeling it[...]

This. This is something that the "whiteknights" do all the time, and it doesn't make it better to do the same thing on the opposite side of the argument. The intelligent response to whiteknighting isn't anti-whiteknighting or blackknighting or whatever. It's logic and reason. People who lack that don't belong in the conversation, regardless of where they stand.



(I'm not singling out DunnoBro here, since I think I know what he meant, but what NotSpiderBread is still true in general and I'm piggybacking on his very legitimate points here to make one of my own.)

As of recent, I've started seeing more of the "hug box" environment that the comments are always called out on, especially from users like Morningstar, Holo, and Steven. It's embarrassing to see them outright attacking people who mention any of the distress going on.

What's embarrassing is that they use it as a chitchat forum. It's a comments section for a game. At least talk about the game. It's not GaiaOnline down there.



Still, credit to you for being smart enough to see what's clearly not right. Blindness to faults are just as bad as delusions of their existence. The only way to improve is to correctly identify what is broken and what is working exactly as it should be.

[DunnoBro]

Wasn't someone from here working on a video? I could've sworn there was talk of a hitler parody thing in addition to an informative video on the banned member's thread.

[BSO]

The comment about the kickstarter comments really resounds with me. As of recent, I've started seeing more of the "hug box" environment that the comments are always called out on, especially from users like Morningstar, Holo, and Steven. It's embarrassing to see them outright attacking people who mention any of the distress going on.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on the mod team would like to see them move to the forums at this point. We can't "force" them though. We don't have the ability to mod comments, and we're not going to start warning everyone posting on the them for spamming, that's just not reasonable. All we can do is try to encourage people to use the comments less and the forums more.

[NotSpiderBread]

The comment about the kickstarter comments really resounds with me. As of recent, I've started seeing more of the "hug box" environment that the comments are always called out on, especially from users like Morningstar, Holo, and Steven. It's embarrassing to see them outright attacking people who mention any of the distress going on.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on the mod team would like to see them move to the forums at this point. We can't "force" them though. We don't have the ability to mod comments, and we're not going to start warning everyone posting on the them for spamming, that's just not reasonable. All we can do is try to encourage people to use the comments less and the forums more.

Well i think some public encouragement from mardinafune would remedy the situation. However you know full well of my suggestions from my email

[BSO]

The comment about the kickstarter comments really resounds with me. As of recent, I've started seeing more of the "hug box" environment that the comments are always called out on, especially from users like Morningstar, Holo, and Steven. It's embarrassing to see them outright attacking people who mention any of the distress going on.

I'm pretty sure that everyone on the mod team would like to see them move to the forums at this point. We can't "force" them though. We don't have the ability to mod comments, and we're not going to start warning everyone posting on the them for spamming, that's just not reasonable. All we can do is try to encourage people to use the comments less and the forums more.

Well i think some public encouragement from mardinafune would remedy the situation. However you know full well of my suggestions from my email

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see what our options are. One way or another though, we're still looking into more ways to get important information (forum access questions) more available.

[Swan Dive]

Situations are almost never beyond repair, and almost never unable to be improved.

This mind set is what will save the forums I think.  Hopefully both "sides" accept this fact.